Friday 28 October 2011

One year, and still counting

It's been a year since I posted my first article on this blog (see it here), and 164 more writings have come past since. Some cars have been unearthed due to the reactions these articles generated, while through here I was made aware of others that I even did not know existed. The amount of visitors has increased ever since (now some 5,000 pageviews per month - you tell me if that is good) and currently there are 60 people subscribing to the posts through e-mail and blog subscription.

So what's next? I have allready told you I am thinking about a 'for sale' section here, and to kick off I have made a seperate 'Maximum Mini Market' page (click on the sign to the right to go there). It needs more work to be made better, but I do not yet know exactly how. Besides, when you crawl through the web you will find plenty more cars for sale that I'd like to include, too, but the ones here are cars of which the sellers agreed on putting it up here to start with. Last but not least a dear reader came up with the idea for a Maximum Mini forum. I am not too sure, but perhaps you guys do like the idea? Come on, let me know.

Party time for Mini derivative fans?

Thursday 27 October 2011

Urban Legend 1: the Butterfield Musketeer

After Minis at Le Mans, the Camber/Maya files and Mystery Mini derivatives (that's still running here at an irregular basis), it's about time for a new series. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, may I introduce to you Maximum Mini's Urban Legends. A series about Mini derivative tales that may seem as hard to believe as totally irrelevant for those who do not care. Contrary to the fan, like yourself (or so may I assume, dear reader). The main questions here are: what ever happened to..., and, is there a survivor..?

And to kick off I thought it'd be nice to do so with the legendary Butterfield Musketeer - the alleged earliest of Mini derivatives that was just finished in time to make it to the Racing Car Show in London of January 1962. When I started researching the Musketeer years ago information was about as scarce as could be, and all the magazine articles and books that did mention it quoted right from the brochure. Apart from that the sources that mentioned production figures at all, chatted about 6 cars built. Humbug, or so I found out for when I'd finally tracked down the Musketeer's instigator/designer/builder Richard Butterfield in the USA. He entrusted me no more then 3 cars were ever built (full story plus many previously unseen pictures in my book - you don't believe I am giving it all away here, do you?!).

Anyhow, and here comes the legend bit that keeps on haunting me: according to Butterfield "One went to a company in Portsmouth while the other became a prototype for a twin-engine version but was never completed." The third car was the original aluminium prototype that was rebuilt with Mini Cooper engine and raced at Brands Hatch by well known Mini racer Christabel Carlisle. The thing that I find hard to digest is that it remains unknown to this day what happened to all three cars. With the prototype being a fully handbuilt car (the body was hand beaten by Williams and Pritchard's) and with a slice of motor show and racing history, that's certainly not the kind of vehicle to end up in a British scrap yard. So how about the other two? They threaten to become the holy grail to Mini derivativism to me. So please, let there be someone out there who knows something about them...

Three Butterfield Musketeers were built, not one is known. That's strange

Tuesday 25 October 2011

Deep Sanderson body parts emerge

Over the last months I have been writing a lot about Deep Sandersons. In the first place because I quite like them, but secondly because these Mini powered machines played a bit of a role on the hallowed racing grounds of Le Mans (about which I wrote a series of articles here). Oh, and last but not least, two rare examples of the breed came for sale recently (see here and here).

Anyway: when a local classic car dealer rung me two weeks ago to report there was a man in his office, claiming he owned a Deep Sanderson body, my interest rose once again. It appeared to be true, too, or at least most of it, as I found out a couple of days later when I looked up the chap myself. From his rural shed emerged in fact two complete boot sections, four door post/sill sections, four doors plus skins and two bonnets for the Deep Sanderson 301. The bits missing are the front sections with pillars and roof.

How did they end up with him in the first place? Well, well. One day in the mid-1990s, he'd had the idea to build himself a replica Deep Sanderson. Actually not a 301 but a Martin V8-powered 303 was the idea, having only to stretch the boot section for that (apart from building a chassis from scratch plus tracking down all the mechanical bits, including an extremely rare Martin V8 engine - that is!). Anyhow: the original moulds were borrowed (with the front section missing), and these sets were nicely laminated in lightweight configuration. Not bad for step one.

But you guessed it: step two was never made, and the car never materialised. Over 15 years later, the body parts are still unused and as our man's projects have moved on, the plan is to sell them now. I have asked one or two people who may be in for them, but I couldn't resist putting them up here, too. Drop me a line when you are interested. Oh, and do let me know when you get Deep Sanderson tired, too.

Body parts were laminated from the original moulds but front sections miss
Picture: Jeroen Booij
Doorposts and sills in one. Fibreglass comes in lightweight configuration
Picture: Jeroen Booij
Doors themselves are deep and come with separate door skins
Picture: Jeroen Booij

Monday 24 October 2011

Whatever happened to this Maya GT?

So our Camber/Maya files have come to an end, haven't they? Not really, as I will keep on chasing these fine Mini derivatives and keep you informed when I do come across something new. As a matter of fact it's been a while since I got a message from Simon Coleman who recalled having seen a Maya GT in a field. Simon wrote: "I found it near Ashford in Kent (not far from Camber). I took this photo in 2007, shortly before it was sold (he wanted £500 for it, which was more than I could afford). Would love to know what happened to it, but suspect it went to Japan!? Great website by the way!" Unfortunately that's just about all Simon remembers, and he did not recall a registration number either. All I can tell is that it surely is a Maya GT (just look at the headlights) and that it appears to have been red earlier in its life, and maybe white, too? Perhaps it is this one? Or this mystery Maya? Who will tell?

UPDATE 28 March 2012: The car is found, still in Ashford and still in very rough condition. Click here

Mystery Maya GT was last seen in a field near to Ashford in 2007
Picture: Simon Coleman

Friday 21 October 2011

Maximum Mini Market?

Good grief, I have been offered quite a few Mini derivatives over the last few weeks. And some nice ones, too. And they made me think. Wouldn't it be an idea to have a section on this blog with cars, or parts, for sale? But how could I actually do this, being only just able to post articles on this blog and illustrate them? Maybe you have some thoughts over this? Yes, I could simply make an extra page with some pictures and a text blurb for the cars on offer, but there surely must be a more clever way? Perhaps I could even become a bit better from it, economically, as this blog keeps me busy and so far only costs me time. Time in which, I reckon, I could also do sensible things and earn some money. Do let me know.

Thursday 20 October 2011

Sport Tottini spotted

A Mini Moke may have the aerodynamics of a refrigerator - that does not keep people from racing them. In fact there was even a racing cup in the mid-1990s with Mini Moke based vehicles. Their rather incredible shape was due to aerodynamic improvements and they were given the pet name Sport Tottini. Of course no where else than in Japan. The Sport Tottini was actually one of the earliest Mystery Mini derivatives on this weblog, see here, and back then Chris Rees supplied most information about them. According to Chris the cars were conceived by a computer software company called Y&T Associates, with the fibreglass body transformation undertaken by Mooncraft, featuring an Austin-Healey Sprite style grille and a long rear deck. Of the supposed 27 cars built two versions were available: a single-seater for racing, and a two-seater for road use. Now, Mini Marcos owner Dennis Overgaard Nielsen, who is in Japan at the moment, made me aware that one of these road cars has come for sale over there. "I want it badly", he wrote and so I gave him the details of a specialist importer. I can only hold my breath now. Interested, too? Click here.

Hello there. I am a Mini Moke. No really.

Wednesday 19 October 2011

Deep Sanderson 105 'Twini' (3)

This is the final part in a series of three about the Deep Sanderson 105 ‘Twini’. Click here for part one and here for part two to read that the twin engined oddity was thought lost in southern US for decades, only to resurface in south London in recent years. When I saw it there in a true barnfind condition, the numbers of its last event (I think that must have been the sixth and last of Sidney Allard’s ‘drag fests’) still on its aluminium body under a thick layer of dust. It came with two engines, but they were not the correct ones, but apart from the seat all the bits and pieces were there. But who was able to carry out the restoration? Unfortunately Christopher Lawrence himself could not afford the car but help was at hand, this time from his former employee Larry Webb.

Lawrence’s biography was published in 2008, when work on the restoration of the Twini was in full swing. In the epilogue of the book he wrote: “Since I concluded the main narrative, several things have happened which have been very rewarding, and which have ensured that the transition from full time employment to retirement, as such, has not really happened. In the first place, quite recently, a possibility that was mentioned in the Twinny story has now occurred, and the Deep Sanderson 105 now resides in my workshop, due to the kindness of Larry and Judy Webb.”

Lawrence worked hard to get the car ready for the 2008 Goodwood Festival of Speed, where he raced it for the first time in 43 years. 1071cc engines in full Downton specification were now fitted and, like its very first outing at Brands Hatch, the body came unpainted. Lawrence told Classic & Sports Car’s Mick Walsh in 2010: “It was an emotional moment. After the first two corners, I opened it up in front of the house. The acceleration was fantastic and it felt as if we’d switched back to the 60’s.” Walsh drove it in the wet and concluded: “With the Mini’s sharp steering and superb lock, it’s agile and this baby Quattro whizzes around on the damp grass for return runs. This mad racer is compulsive fun, but just imagine the thrill of running it in the dry at the Brighton Speed Trials.” Fancy doing just that? Call Larry Webb at 07860 969696 who now offers the car for sale here, or give it a go at the auction in two weeks time. It has no reserve…

Preparation at Festival of Speed. Note original blue frame and new radiator
Picture: Stefan Marjoram

As in 1963 at Brands' the aluminium body is now once again unpainted
Picture: Lozzy Loz,

First drive after 43 years: "It felt as if we’d switched back to the 60’s"
Picture: Ilya Holt,

Modern wheel and new seat, but most of the 'Twini' is like it was when new

Silverstone's GTM Rossa

Last week, Paul Irvine asked me if I knew more about a GTM Rossa that appears to have been built specifically for the Silverstone track, which unfortunately I don't. Paul wrote: "Hi Jeroen. I have been messing around with Mini based kit cars for the last 30 years. With the research you have carried out over the last few years have you ever come across any information on the GTM Rossa shown in the photo? I have been trying to find out some details but have drawn a blank so far and thought you may know some of the history of this car." In fact the good looking Mk1 Rossa was new to me, although I did read somewhere that the car was restored using a 1293cc A-series with intercooled supercharger producing 200bhp and mated to a 6-speed Jack Knight dog box. Paul ads to that: "The first time I saw any photos of the car were on the GTM owners club stand. From what I have found out is the car was driven by Jackie Oliver, this may be misinformation as I have put a few posts on the owners club forum with little response. Maybe a few words on your blog would prompt a discussion?" Well, why not? So here we go mate: who knows more?

Was GTM Rossa driven by Jackie Oliver at 2009 Silverstone Classic?

Tuesday 18 October 2011

Unique 'Mini Gordon' comes for sale

Most of the Minis converted by Wood and Pickett are something out of the ordinary, but the 'Mini Gordon' surely must have been one of the more extreme conversions carried out by the London based coachbuilder. Within a small circle of enthusiasts it was known that the car survived in a suburb of Brussels in virtually untouched condition, with some 50,000 kilometres only on its clock. Now it is offered for sale for just under 20,000 Euros here.

The car was built for Belgium based Eric Gordon, hence it's name, and is said to have been unveiled at the 1976 Brussels Motor Show. But according to Francois Tasiaux from Brussels, it was seen for the first time in public in December 1975 at the Brussels Racing Car Show. The donor Mini used for the conversion dates from 1974 and the project is said to have been encouraged by two Spanish friends of Gordon: a dancer named Elena Vilar and a motor sports enthusiast and racer named Antonio Rodriguez Huerta, but the information that I have is sketchy. Perhaps someone here is able to tell me more about Eric Gordon and his Spanish friends?

The car itself is shortened by 37 centimetres and comes with added hatchback, giving access to a full bar, carrying special bottles and glasses! The cocoa paint job is said to consist of no less then 13 layers of paint of which the colour comes back in the wool rugs on the interior's floor. Apart from that the interior uses the signature Wood & Pickett dashboard plus door pockets and Recaro seats, all trimmed in ivory coloured Connoly leather. Quite a car for city traffic, I'd say.

Mini Gordon on 1976 Brussels Motor Show. Who knows more about its history?
Picture: big thanks to Xavi Enrich

Shortened grille seems odd. Are those shield bumpers from a Renault 5?

Hatchback gives access to bar. Doors and rear lights appear to be Innocenti sourced

Lavish interior ticks all the boxes on Wood & Pickett's accessory list

Thursday 13 October 2011

What exactly is this Status Minipower?

It's not very often that a Status Minipower (also known as Status Symbol) comes up for sale, and I remember well that one came on the market in 2004. In fact it was not a complete car but one of the 20 ingenious chassis' built by Status founder Brian Luff in the early 1970s, and I have never seen another one being offered for sale since. Brian told me that of these 20 chassis sold only 8 buyers bought a body from him, too, turning them into proper cars. He recalled that most of the chassis' went to autocrossers who made a body of their own which was a lot cheaper.

Anyway. Meanwhile I have been in touch with Andy Downes who bought the Status chassis in 2004, and is eager to find out more about it now. But in fact it seems that this particular Minipower chassis was meant to have become something rather special. Andy wrote: "It is chassis number AS 72 and although similar to the one in the magazine (an article on the car that I sent to him-JB) it differs in that it is all square section tube (the magazine one has some round tubes at the front and round the ‘dashboard’). Also it has a roof/windscreen section (cut off by a previous owner) that can be seen in some of my pictures. Looking at my chassis it is markedly different to the one in the magazine article, in particular the roof bars which were clearly attached when new but cut off later and also the front rocking wishbones. So I presume there was more than one version of the chassis."

Naturally, these modifications could also have been carried out by somebody else. But the most interesting thing, perhaps, is that this actual chassis came with some intriguing design drawings that clearly seem to have been meant for this car. These drawings show the altered Status chassis plus a wedged body for it and they are marked 'ABH Design Group' and dated 1972 and 1973. Could ABH possibly have made production plans for this Mini based car? Andy would love to find out, and so would I.

Andy's Status Minipower chassis seems pretty much straightforward...

...untill the cut off roof and windscreen section is put in its place

Design drawing is dated 1972 and clearly shows the same chassis

And there is a drawing for a wedged body, too. Who were ABH Design Group?

Tuesday 11 October 2011

Camber/Maya files: ???208H

For the time being this is the last part in a series about the Camber GT and Maya GT cars that I know of. After having described eight cars from old pictures that I have and stories that I heard, the final Maya GT that I know of is a bit of a mystery. From the only picture that I have of it, its registration number can only partly be seen, clearly ending with '208H' which makes it a 1969 registration and thus a very late car, or build. It shows a white Maya GT with 10 inch J.A.Pearce wheels but that is about all I know. Perhaps some of you guys will be able to tell me more about it?

Maya GT wears JAP aluminium wheels. The picture appears to be old
Picture Jeroen Booij archive

Find out more about the other cars described in this series by clicking on their registration numbers below:

NPM14F (Camber GT)
RLL8L (Camber GT)
FNU400H (Camber GT)
HPN14D (Camber GT)
DEN70D (Camber GT)
KOO589 (Maya GT)
HPN13D (Maya GT)
RKM473G (Maya GT)
PAP14F (Maya GT)
???208H (Maya GT)

Monday 10 October 2011

Cox GTM badges reproduced

Fact was, that the earliest Cox GTMs (55 made, or so is believed) came with a proud badge on their delicate, bumper less noses. But no one seemed to remember what these looked like, and from the black & white pictures known, it was impossible to get a good impression. But that changed when this car emerged from its Cheshire lock-up after some 40-odd years. It still wore its original 'Grand Touring Mini' emblem sticker and so it could now be reproduced. And that is exactly what was done. I received an envelope with some of these badges and must say they are of excellent quality. Anyone desparatily needing one, drop me a line and I will bring you in touch with the chap who had them made.

Cox GTM logo graced Howard Heerey's racer, too, as shown in John Baggott's Mini - The Racing Story

Friday 7 October 2011

Deep Sanderson 105 'Twini' (2)

This is the second part in a little series on the Deep Sanderson 105 ‘Twini’. Click here for the first part when you have not yet read about how the twin-engined single seater came to life. It wasn’t a particularly easy birth, but the real problem occurred when the car’s creator, Christopher Lawrence, had a severe accident in his Chevrolet Corvair on his way back home from 1964's Le Mans 24-hours race where he'd driven a Deep Sanderson 301 (full story here). Lawrence went to hospital in Paris not to return home weeks later. In total it took some 4 months before he returned to his workshop, only to find out that much of his cars were sold off. But, as he writes in his biography: "There was no trace of the car or record of its sale. I discovered eventually that John Pearce (the man who was sub contracted to build the 301s - JB) had helped himself to the car and it was gathering dust in the back of his emporium in Southall."

"I retrieved it from there in great haste as I had heard about Sidney Allard's upcoming 'Festival of Speed and Sport'. There were to be six drag race meetings, held on three consecutive weekends, all round the country and this would clearly be a perfect shop window for selling the Twinny. (...) The Twinny, with its fairly light weight, four wheel drive and manageable torque, was nearly always leading at one eighth of a mile, often causing the other driver to get flustered and start to miss gears and the like. Our esteemed hill climb champion of the time, Tony Marsh, who had borrowed the Ferguson P99 four wheel drive Formula 1 car, was beaten twice by the Twinny whose best elapsed time for the standing quarter mile was 10.9sec, despite not being as competitive as the Ferguson. John Pearce then bought the car saying he had a buyer for it in Houston, Texas, and I had always assumed that was where it went."

But in fact, it didn't. It was when I was in full swing with my book in 2006 when I heard the DS 105 was taken over by collector extraordinaire Duncan Rabagliati in more recent years. I phoned Duncan who told me he'd bought the car after having told a chap in the pub he was looking for Deep Sanderson badges for his 301, when the man in question said that he might have something that might interest him then. Duncan took over the 105 but decided the restoration would become too expensive for him, and offered it for sale again. Who took it over next? You'll read it in the last part soon.

Allard's 'dragfest' programme book. DS 105 races against F1s and the Cooper Buick!

The Deep Sanderson Twini at the start line of one of the dragfests, Tony Kinch drove it
Source: Small Car magazine
Pearce's advertisement in which the car is offered for sale in 1967
Source: Motorsport magazine

The car in 2006 emerging from a London lock up, with Duncan Rabagliati
Picture Jeroen Booij

Gear lever with linkages to two engines plus one clutch handle. Note exhausts and tank 
Picture Jeroen Booij

Pedal box: Lawrence said about DS 105: "I made it absolutely as simple as I could"
Picture Jeroen Booij

Thursday 6 October 2011

Book: Mad Minis

Personally I have never been a fan of Minis that are modified to non-A-series engines, preferring Mini-powered Minis that are not anymore recognisable as such over Minis that retain their Mini looks but have technically nothing to do with them anymore. But it seems not too many people go with me on this, and Canada based writer Iain Ayre knows this. Recently I got in touch with Iain and he was kind enough to send me a copy of his book Mad Minis. In one of its 31 chapters he writes: "I write for MiniWorld, which loves mad Minis as long as they retain the Mini shape. So you'll find stories about Z-Cars with GRP shells, which are kits rather then Minis, but you'll only rarely find a mention of Marcos or GTM." I would say that is a missed opportunity, but Iain told me he left MiniWorld recently to join Mini Magazine, so who knows what the future will bring.

But since quite a few of the cars in Mad Minis have been featured in MiniWorld before, too, you won't find many Mini derivatives in the book. Power-crazed oddballs aplenty though. There are Minis with all sorts of superbike engines and Honda Vtecs, but also with a Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet V8, Nissan V6, Mazda rotary, Suzuki 3-cylinder to even an estate with two Vauxhall 2-litre mills (I am not making this up). Some of them come with space frames and incredibly ingenious mechanicals. It's fun to read as Ayre's style is dry and witty, making fun of these contraptions in many cases, and giving an insight in the minds of their builders. Many of the times I was asking myself that one question: why? And fortunately Iain does not hesitate to actually ask that question to the creators, too.

In between all these truly crazy creations he did manage to squeeze in the current Mini Marcos Mk6 in a seperate chapter though. There are also chapters titled 'Offroad' about the Chris Hollier designed Mountaineer and the Scamp, featuring a Mk3; 'Trikes' about the Triad and the stillborn Brookland Swallow (a mid 1990s design by Ayre himself - more on that later) and 'Mini Kit Cars' featuring a Domino Pimlico, Hustler 6, GTM Coupe and Banham Sprint. You won't read anything new about them, but if you're after a fun book with some truly mad machines the 19.99 GBP cover price is not bad at all.

The Domino Pimlico is one of the Mini derivatives in Iain Ayre's Mad Minis

Wednesday 5 October 2011

More lovely Landar images

After a stack of Landar R6 images sent over to here by Tim Dyke last year, a few more pictures of this cool Mini based racing car were sent over to me recently by Andy Downes. Andy is a real Mini derivative fan, owning a Status Minipower chassis (more on that later), and came in here when looking for Deep Sanderson information. He wrote: "I am a Morgan man at heart (but also have a Gilbern Invader) and know well the exploits of Chris Lawrence, I went to the memorial service last week and saw the ‘Twini’ and also one of the early Deep Sandersons, hence I came to renew my interest and found you! I have wanted a DS for a long time but my dream would be a Landar... Find some pictures of a Landar attached that came from the guy I bought the Status from. They were taken at Donington racetrack but no idea when." Perhaps somebody else can shed a light on them? They surely seem to be of 1980s vintage..?

Now that's what I call low slung! Mean green Landar R6 at Donington

This appears to be another car, but it was snapped at Donington, too

Space frame chassis, but Mini front subframe is also incorporated at rear

Tuesday 4 October 2011

Bitten by the Bison (6)

Since the last update on the CJC Bison, better known as The Mini Lamborghini, the project's progress hasn't exactly been smooth. In fact, since the fitting of the exhaust our anonymous handy man Buffalo Bill used his hecksaw for his next step: creating much needed more interior space. Back then he wrote: "It's going to get a lot worse I think, but will be worth it." The idea was to dramatically alter floor and bulkhead to win space. Sounds easy, but when some images were sent over to here - after the hecksawing took place - I wasn't so sure anymore about the ease of the job. As always, Buffalo Bill remained dead calm: "The one with no seat is the passenger side, you can see how much space has improved simply by leaning its all back and round by a couple of inches. The one with the seat is the drivers side, showing how much more room is round the seat. The upper part will be flat (like before) with just a bit of shaping to marry up to the side windows. There's tons of room now."

Nothing could stop our project man from improving the Bison's limited interior space

But then things got quiet for a while, and just when I believed the Bison was about to come to an unhappy end another message with more pictures arrived: "Cracked on with the bulkhead, it's about 95% done inside (just a bit more smoothing and odd spots around the windows need a bit more) and about 50% done outside (the whole upper part needs sanding flat, and the lower part needs more work). The seats fit fine though now, or at least as well as they ever will. I am really pleased how it turned out. Just the rest of it to do now!" You just have to admit this man doesn't give up easily... I also liked the comment of one of his friends: "Wouldn't it have been easier to have your legs shortened & your arms lengthened!?"

And this is how the beast looks now. It must be fun to cut out that rear window...

Monday 3 October 2011

The mysterious decals of the Mini Mare

While chatting with Mini Mare owner John Stanmeyer about his car (more here), we drew the conclusion that three of the four cars that are known now come with a different decal on their bonnets. The white car resides on the isle of Sicily has none (but it wouldn't surprise me if originally had one, too); the other three do. They are an anchor (light yellow car), a ship's wheel (John's white car) and a clover leaf (bright orange car). Apart from that last one there appears to be a nautical theme here, which would fit the story as the cars were supposedly commissioned as tender to Fernandino Innocenti's yacht 'Anitella' in 1972.

John wrote: "The missing decal could indeed have been removed in a subsequent paint job, though unfortunate to not replace because I sense it was the original design. Until we repainted our back in the late 1970's (we masked around the wheel) I could feel that ship's wheel paint was not add-on but rather painted directly upon the bonnet... the transition between white body paint and wheel was flawless. Odds are the paint on the Mare when my father bought it was original because he purchased it in the early 70's. Also possibly interesting/connectable to the ships wheel on the bonnet is this — the interior roof vinyl, flooring and dashboard vinyl are all a deep sea blue, matching the exact same color of the blue ships wheel painted on the bonnet. I remember noticing this as a kid and now these discussions are making me recall odd connective bits such as this colour scheme of what I sense is the original design plan of the Mini Mares produced."

"By the way; I'm not an expert in any of this! Simply sharing insight into my car so someone else knows before I forget these finite details. I know more about Mars then Mini's..." To be honest I am not much of an expert into bonnet decals, but like John I am enjoying a good bit of sleuthing work... So there we go again: who knows more about these decals?
Cracking the code? Apart from Sicily car (top left) all Mini Mares have bonnet decals: 
a ship's wheel; clover leaf and an anchor...